01:15 Introduction
   
Gene: Hello Dave.
   
David: Hello Gene.
   
Gene: You ready to finish it all up?
   
David: I guess so. But, as always, before we get started, I want to remind everyone that Show Notes, Chapter Markers, and Transcripts for all of our episodes are available on our website - WayOfTheHermit.com. In our last episode, we discussed the first half of the Gnostic text “The Thunder, Perfect Mind,” and in this episode we will complete our discussion of that text - which is the last one that we’re covering this season.
   
Gene: But we will be back for a final “Epilogue” episode.
   
David: That’s right. We’re going to take a look back at what we’ve done this season.
   
Gene: I’m looking forward to that. It should be fun. We’ve covered so much this season… or I should say  UNcovered, or DIScovered.
   
02:00 Review
   
David: Right. And we’ll talk about all of that next time, but before we dive into the second half of “Thunder Mind, Perfect Mind,” let’s review what we discovered last time in part one. Gene, do you want to start off?
   
Gene: Sure. The text is a series of enigmatic statements by a female speaker, who speaks in the first person. She’s identified with Barbelo, particularly in her second aspect, from the “Trimorphic Protennoia” text - where, in her “second descent,” she is the “Voice of Thunder” that shakes the Thrones of the Archons, and which ultimately, brings on their Apocalypse.
   
David: And esoterically, as we’ve talked about many times, those “Seven Archons” or “Kings” as they’re called in Revelation, represent seven aspects of you - your sense of self, your intellect and emotions, your self-control and memories,  your self-expression. And it’s funny, we talked about this in the first season, in the episode we did on the “17th Degree: Knight of the East and West,” we talked about how opening the “Seven Seals” in the book of Revelation represents this same thing.
   
Gene: We did? I’ve slept since then.
   
David: Yeah we did. And we also said, in that episode, that the key to opening the seals was overcoming the duality that each seal represents - which is what the “Thunders,” the sayings in this text, are pointing at, too.
   
Gene: Wow. That’s cool that it ties in like that.
   
David: It is. And there were also seven Thunders in Revelation, too. They spoke to John, and he understood what they were saying, but he was told not to write down what they said. They’re the only content in Revelation that was kept sealed.
   
Gene: Which makes sense because, as we know now from reading the first part, the “Thunders” are statements about non-duality, so they can’t be fully conceptualized, or as John says, they can’t be written down - or, when they are, they’re misinterpreted.
   
David: They are because they’re pointing at something very subtle - the Mind trying to grasp itself as an object. And so, it has to remain veiled, or sealed, until consciousness transforms enough to resolve the paradox.
   
Gene: And we talked about ways to resolve some of the apparent paradoxes. Like when she says “I am the first and the last. I am the honored one and the scorned one.” That seems like a paradox until you realize that you are all of those things at one time or another. It’s just a matter of whether you identify with your ever-changing identity, or the one who experiences them all.
   
David: So basically, it forces you to ask yourself about your core identity - who are you, really.
   
Gene: It does. And there were also statements that seemed like unresolvable causal loops like - “I am the mother of my father and the sister of my husband and he is my offspring.”
   
David: Right. But the resolution is that it’s saying what happens, becomes part of the future, or what you do, forms what you become. The thoughts you have, and the things you say and do - change you, and become part of what you are later.
   
Gene:  So, in a weird way, it’s saying that you are the father and mother of your future self.
   
David: Yeah. The present births the future. We are, and reality, is in a constant and continuing state of becoming. Did you have anything else to review before we jump in?
   
Gene: Just that the text sets her up as a mirror of the entire human condition, the light of all cultures and religions. It basically obliterates all notions of “Us vs Them” mentality and says that the ultimate truth can’t be captured by a single tradition. So there’s no exclusive control over the truth by any one religion.
   
David: Because it’s always from a perspective, even if that is just the limitations of being human. But anyway, the text, as the name implies is intended to shake us up, and to make us question the specialness we want to claim - because the message it’s sending is that there is ONE consciousness operating within all things, and the only thing that differentiates one thing from another is the illusion of separation.
   
Gene: And the Apocalypse that the “Thunderous Truths” of non-duality, that the text delivers, are supposed to bring about the “Perfect Mind,” that sees through that illusion, to the underlying wholeness.
   
David: Alright. Gene, do you want to start us off?
   
06:22 God and Godless
   
Gene: Sure. The second part of the text starts off with her saying - “I, I am godless, and I am the one whose God is great. I am the one whom you have reflected upon, and you have scorned me.”
   
David: This is the voice of Barbelo, whose home is in the Pleroma, with the Monad. She doesn’t look up to anyone, there is no one above her because at that level there is no hierarchy, only wholeness. But, from below, the worlds below the Pleroma, where we are, she’s a reflection of the “Great God,” the Monad. And it’s only through her that we perceive that Light.
   
Gene: I took it as another one of those statements meant to burst your bubble about being special. What one person sees as “godless” may be very meaningful and spiritually important to another person. It’s saying “Who are you to decide that, for anyone else?”
   
David: Because, as we talked about in the last episode, she represents the judgement of the “Greeks” and the “Barbarians,” the cultured and uncultured, the godless and those that “hold their god in high esteem.” She’s the capacity of judgement that they, and we, share and we have to exercise that capacity, to work out what’s being said.
   
Gene: It’s another little puzzle that forces you to try to identify with what she represents, to work out what she’s saying.
   
David: Right. The second part says that we “reflect upon her” and “scorn her.” To reflect upon means “to turn toward,” and to scorn means “to turn away from” - so turning toward or away from her.
   
Gene: But whatever you’re turning toward, when you think you’re turning away from her, is still her.
   
David: Because, as we discussed last time, she says she’s the stuff that reality itself is composed of. So if she’s not there, there’s no consciousness, and therefore, no awareness.
   
Gene: Exactly. The next part says - “I am unlearned, and they learn from me. I am the one that you have despised, and you reflect upon me.”
   
David: The first thing that makes me think of, is the forces that created our bodies and minds, didn’t have to go to school to learn how to do that.
   
Gene: True that.
   
David: Anything that we learn, is based on a capacity that is encoded unconsciously inside us, that unfolds and evolves. There’s a whole mechanism of acquiring information, symbolizing it in the mind, thinking with that symbolic information and then storing it into memory to work with it later - that we don’t learn to do. Next one?
   
Gene: OK. The next part says - “I am the one whom you have hidden from, and you appear to me. But whenever you hide yourselves, I myself will appear. For whenever you appear, I myself will hide from you.
   
David: That’s describing the spiritual game of hide and seek between the personal egoic self, and the higher self, the greater consciousness that’s obscured by the Light of the Ego, like the sunlight hides the Moon.
   
Gene: It’s basically saying that you’re either experiencing regular consciousness, or you have entered  some state of reflective self-awareness, from which you’re observing, rather than identifying with, and experiencing. You ready for the next one?
   
09:35 Shame and Shamelessness
   
David: Yes. The next part is a bit fragmented but it picks up with  “… take me to yourselves from understanding and grief. And take me to yourselves from places that are ugly and in ruin, and rob from those which are good even though in ugliness.”
   
Gene: To me, that’s saying that whatever the circumstances, don’t disconnect and lose yourself. It’s telling you to stay present and aware, regardless of the situation.
   
David: It’s saying to “take her from,” or “out of,” all of these situations and emotions. From both understanding and grief, to “take her” to ourselves. She’s what unites the seeming opposites, you can take “her,” which is “conscious awareness,” from any situation. But especially in situations in which you feel grief, if you can couple that grief with understanding, about the transient nature of the material world, that leads to wisdom.
   
Gene: And it also unites our Feeling and Thinking parts. Understanding involves Thinking and grief is a Feeling. So it’s “knowledge of” something, as opposed to just understanding intellectually.
   
David: Right.
   
Gene: What do you think about that part at the end that says to “rob from those which are good even though in ugliness?”
   
David: Don’t judge a book by its cover and take good habits, traits and truths where you find them, even if they’re obscured or don’t look pretty.
   
Gene: That’s good. Are you ready for the next one?
   
David: Yes. It says - “Out of shame, take me to yourselves shamelessly; and out of shamelessness and shame, upbraid my members in yourselves.”
   
Gene: “Shame” is the feeling that you have violated some sort of boundary, in this case it may be referring to a lack of “reverence,” or respect for the sacred. And “upbraid” means to rebuke or chastise. So, it’s saying that whether you don’t feel worthy to approach her mystery, or you’re too naive to know any better, to “get on with it!”
   
David: Yeah, like previous statements, it’s again saying to “take her out of” or “find her in” both shame and shamelessness, because she is the consciousness that experiences both. Both shame and shamelessness commune with her in wholeness. Anything else on that one?
   
Gene: Just that “shame” is a prime element of control by other people, or from organized religion. And if you don’t find a way, to stop accepting the judgement of others, you’ll never beat the “shame game” - it’s rigged against you. You have to find your own inner judge.
   
David: You do. Ready for the next one?
   
12:12 Forward to Childhood
   
Gene: I am. The next part says - “And come forward to me, you who know me and you who know my members, and establish the great ones among the small first creatures.”
   
David: That’s a message to those who know her in her wholeness, or those who know her through her “members,” meaning only through her manifold manifestations.
   
Gene: So… that’s everybody.
   
David: Right. And she’s saying “come forward,” so “step up” and “establish the Great Ones among the small first creatures.” So what do you think is meant by the “Great Ones” and what are the “small creatures?”
   
Gene: That statement seems like it’s saying “come forward,” to go backwards. Which reminds me of that other “Benjamin Buttons” thing we talked about.
   
David: What “Benjamin Buttons” thing?
   
Gene: Where we were saying that your future, older self, is sort of like the son or daughter of your current, younger self.
   
David: OK. I see what you’re getting at. Um… I’m not sure that that analogy works.
   
Gene: I don’t know.
   
David: But in that context, the “small creatures” could be the younger members of your future self.
   
Gene: Yes. Thoughts that we form, consciously or unconsciously, that make us into who we later become.
   
David: And the “Great Ones,” could be the big ideas that we establish to guide and direct the development of the small ones - again, sort of like how parents guide their children. She’s saying to step up and be a good parent to our future selves.
   
Gene: That’s cool because the next part continues that idea. It says - “Come forward to childhood, and do not despise it because it is small and it is little. And do not turn away greatnesses in some parts from the smallnesses, for the smallnesses are known from the greatnesses.”
   
David: That is a continuation of the same thought. It’s saying to embrace your own becoming. Don’t despise the baby steps you have to make, because it’s the attention to detail that forms greatness. It’s like the saying from the Tao Te Ching - “A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.”
   
Gene: It makes me think of the saying of Jesus that you have to become like a little child to enter the “Kingdom of Heaven.”
   
David: Like we said earlier, the text, if it becomes KNOWN by being EXPERIENCED as opposed to just being UNDERSTOOD intellectually - it’s intended to shatter your worldview, and to take you back to first principles - to become like a child, so to speak.
   
Gene: Yeah, we talked about that at the end of our discussion of “The Trimorphic Protennoia” - how it throws all of your understanding of spiritual principles and text into question because it demands another layer of reflection on your part - and as I mentioned last time, it can make your head hurt!
   
14:53 Honored and Cursed
   
David: It can, and here’s another of those kind of statements. It says - “Why do you curse me and honor me? You have wounded and you have had mercy.”
   
Gene: That’s one of those questions, that sort of puts you on the defensive. It first asks why you both “curse” and “honor” her, and then just states as a fact, that you have “wounded” and shown “mercy” to her.
   
David: As we talked about last time, those types of questions force you to consider, who it means when it refers to YOU, and who is SHE, the speaker?
   
Gene: They’re both you, or really you are one of her members. Either way, the truth that it’s trying to get across is that there is no separation between you and her, or between you and others. In essence, as she made clear in “The Trimorphic Protennoia” - we’re all one consciousness, wearing different skins.
   
David: And with that idea in mind, you could paraphrase that last passage as - “Why do I curse and honor myself and others? I have wounded and had mercy on myself and others.”
   
Gene: That sounds like asking ourselves why our emotions swing back and forth like they do… you know, like why we can’t stay present.
   
David: Well, the next part explains how to stay present and not dissociate. This part is a bit fragmented, but the remaining part says - “Do not separate me from the first ones whom you have known. And do not cast anyone out nor turn anyone away… I know the first ones and those after them know me.”
   
Gene: The “first ones” it refers to are probably the “small first creatures” from the earlier passage.
   
David: And she is one of the “Great Ones” that she said to establish among them. So here, she’s saying that once established, don’t separate from her but stay in constant communion. Don’t allow anyone or anything to make you turn away.
   
Gene: That last part is weird - “I know the first ones and those after them know me.”
   
David: As we talked about in the episodes on “The Trimorphic Protennoia,” she is the divine pattern of mind, which establishes the foundation composed of the “Great Ones” from the earlier passage. That’s the initial blueprint of a new Mind - the “little children” that will mature into who we will become.
   
17:12 Mind of God
   
Gene: That ties into the next part which says - “I am the mind… and the rest of…” - something… there’s a piece missing there. It picks up with - “I am the knowledge of my inquiry, and the finding of those who seek after me, and the command of those who ask of me, and the power of the powers in my knowledge of the angels, who have been sent at my word, and of gods in their seasons by my counsel, and of spirits of every man who exists with me, and of women who dwell within me.”
   
David: That’s a long sentence.
   
Gene Yes it is!
   
David: I think she’s trying to cover every thing - every action and it’s fulfillment, every level of the spiritual hierarchy, right down to physical embodiment in men and women.
   
Gene: She’s in, and one with, every physical and mental process.
   
David: She’s the first reflection of the Monad, the first thought. She represents the capacity of the “One Consciousness” to know itself. And that passage maps out some of how that self-knowledge plays out, through the three worlds - the Spirit, the Soul and the Body.
   
Gene: The next part is similar to an earlier passage. It says - “I am the one who is honored, and who is praised, and who is despised scornfully.”
   
David: Yeah, the earlier passages said - “I am the honored one and the scorned one.”
   
Gene: “Honored” means “recognition” or “acceptance,” and “scorned” means “active rejection.” This passage adds “praised” which means active celebration. But, like we’ve talked about before, it’s talking about us. We’ve all experienced, or at least can experience, being honored, praised and scorned.
   
David: You know that thing we did before where you act like it’s you talking?
   
Gene: Yes.
   
David: Well here, you don’t need to map anything, you just read it like you’re saying it about yourself - “I am the one who is honored, and who is praised, and who is despised scornfully.”
   
Gene: It’s again pointing to the persistent consciousness that remains YOU, while experiencing all the different things that we experience.
   
David: Exactly. It is the part of you that has been all those things, but still keeps moving and evolving.
   
Gene: That reminds me of a quote from “The Big Chill” - “I was evolving. I’m still evolving.”
   
David: Yeah that’s a good quote.
   
Gene: Yeah. Anyway, the next passage is like the last one so I’ll read it like I’m saying it.
   
David: OK.
   
Gene: ”I am peace, and war has come because of me. And I am an alien and a citizen.”
   
David: So, what does it make you think about when you read it like it’s you saying it?
   
Gene: I just immediately started connecting it to things about me, things that I’ve done, things that I’ve seen. There are times, when I’ve felt totally at peace, with myself and the world, and other times like a “race car in the red” (to quote “Pulp Fiction”). I mean, just basically a source of conflict.
   
David: I’ve felt that way, too. And the part about alien or citizen, I mean, sometimes you feel at home, because either you are, or people, or circumstances have made you feel that way. Or you feel like an alien, out of place.
   
Gene: Reading these passages with focus and intent forces you to step back a notch, and self-reflect on the process that you may, up to this point, have identified with.
   
20:34 The Substance
   
David: It does. And the next passage identifies what you see in that reflection. She says - “I am the substance and the one who has no substance. Those who are without association with me are ignorant of me, and those who are in my substance are the ones who know me.”
   
Gene: That’s saying that she is the matrix of the spiritual and the material, a reflection of pure consciousness, organized like a Mind. She’s the shared pattern, the bridge or portal between the spiritual and material - the ultimate ground of the Hermetic Axiom “as above, so below.”
   
David: And, as we’ve talked about a few times, that stance that consciousness is the underlying reality, the quantum soup out of which everything arises, is the basis of the philosophy of “Analytical Idealism.” It says that “without association with (her)” you’re “ignorant of (her),” meaning you don’t know her. But “those who are in (her) substance” - “know (her).”
   
Gene: Those who have “mind melded” with her, so to speak. Again, it’s again a question of whether you identify with your constantly moving awareness, that identifies with one thing and then another, or you identify with the underlying consciousness that experiences it all.
   
David: Right. The next part says - “Those who are close to me have been ignorant of me, and those who are far away from me are the ones who have known me. On the day when I am close to you, you are far away from me, and on the day when I am far away from you, I am close to you.”
   
Gene: That one makes you wonder, in this context, what does distance even mean? What does it mean to be spiritually close, or spiritually distant? It isn’t about physical proximity.
   
David: No. It’s about similarity - what she referred to as “being in her substance,” which in theological terms is called being “consubstantial” with her, recognizing that we are of the same essence.
   
Gene: But the statements still seem paradoxical. Like, it says - “On the day when I am close to you, you are far away from me, and on the day when I am far away from you, I am close to you.” What is it getting at?
   
David: That if you’re still thinking in those dualistic term, you’re going to chase your tail!
   
Gene: OK.
   
David: Because, you’re never close and you’re never far.
   
Gene: You’re always one.
   
David: Right. It’s talking about the way you frame things and how those conceptions of separation can lead you astray.
   
22:57 Sin and Self-Control
   
Gene: Yeah. OK, there’s a really fragmented part that I’m going to skip over, but it picks up with her saying - “I am control and the uncontrollable. I am the union and the dissolution. I am the abiding and I am the dissolution.”
   
David: Breaking apart and bringing back together, which is called in alchemy “solve” and “coagula.” Mentally, it’s like how we analyze something and decompose it into components, that we can then design to fit together again in novel ways.
   
Gene: It’s like a flow, like all of life is. It takes on static forms temporarily, that eventually break down and reenter the quantum stream.
   
David: The philosopher Bernardo Kastrup calls these temporary forms “dissociative alters,” that he likens to fractured complexes of the “Mind at Large,” that believe themselves to be separate entities - but they’re more like waves on an ocean.
   
Gene: That’s an interesting way to think about it. The next part says - “I am the one below, and they come up to me. I am the judgment and the acquittal.”
   
David: We talked about what “close” or “far away” means in the spiritual realm - well, here it’s “above” and “below.” Which I’d take to mean the relative place in the spiritual hierarchy from Monad to embodied being.
   
Gene: So she’s saying again that she’s everything. The matter that our bodies are composed of, and the basis of our mental faculties, both “judgment” and “acquittal.”
   
David: Because, as we’ve said, she’s the capacity to form judgements and make decisions.
   
Gene: Right. The next part says - “I, I am sinless, and the root of sin derives from me. I am lust in (outward) appearance, and interior self-control exists within me.”
   
David: Sin implies judgment. It means “missing the mark.” So she’s saying that moral judgments don’t apply to her, because she makes both sin and judgment possible. We normally don’t think of animals as capable of sin, they may do horrific things, but they don’t seem to possess the self-reflective capacity to make moral judgments.
   
Gene: But they did hang an elephant in Erwin back in 1916.
   
David: Yeah I know - that actually happened. But anyway, the last thing that I have on this one is that all of the capabilities that we possess, exist in principle in her, in consciousness itself, or there would be no expression of them.
   
Gene: Which just reinforces that consciousness itself is the father and the mother, of all the “little children,” the “dissociative alters” of the “Mind at Large,” the Pleroma. What we are is the end product of what she represents, unfolding into the universe.
   
25:47 Knowledge of Her Name
   
David: That’s true. And in the next part, she continues that unfolding mystery by saying - “I am the hearing which is attainable to everyone and the speech which cannot be grasped. I am a mute who does not speak, and great is my multitude of words.”
   
Gene: Hearing and Speech are not just input and output of sounds, they both imply an organized intelligence capable of making meaning of sounds - otherwise, it’s just noise.
   
David: And the message it carries is both completely accessible and completely transcendent. It’s about how consciousness makes sense of itself. Like the passage before that said that she was uneducated but all learning flows from her, here she says she doesn’t speak, which in a way is true, but yet all words are really from her, shaped by human consciousness.
   
Gene: So we can access and understand what we’re capable of accessing and understanding.
   
David: Right. Let’s alternate these next few statements, they’re short.
   
Gene: OK. The next statement says - “Hear me in gentleness, and learn of me in roughness.”
   
David: That points to Thinking and Feeling, and what it means to really know something. You can hear about it, which gives you an intellectual understanding, but when things get rough, when things are uncomfortable, that’s a different kind of learning that you feel.
   
Gene: We talked about this earlier on the passage about understanding and grief, and how real wisdom, that comes through experience, engages both types of learning. Then it’s not a question of belief, it’s a Gnosis, a “knowing.”
   
David: OK. The next statement is - “I am she who cries out, and I am cast forth upon the face of the earth.”
   
Gene: She’s the voice crying in the wilderness, with the wilderness being the entire planet. She’s all the voices, of all sentient beings, spread out over the earth.
   
David: And the way it’s phrased ties it into the Wisdom tradition where she is the voice of the rejected prophet. As in the book of Proverbs where Sophia "cries out in the streets... (and) raises her voice in the public squares" but "no one who listens.”
   
Gene: Hey, the next one, I thought was really interesting. It says - “I prepare the bread and my mind within. I am the knowledge of my name.”
   
David: Yeah that is interesting. It makes me think of the parables from the “Gospel of Thomas” about her being the yeast hidden in the dough. And even in that discussion, we talked about that as meaning that the pattern that she represents, organizes the unshaped “dough” of consciousness, into the Mind.
   
Gene: And the last part - “I am the knowledge of my name.” has the three parts we’ve talked about before, the Knower, the Known and the act of Knowing. And she’s saying that she is all of that - the Symbol, the Symbolized, and the process of Symbolization.
   
David: That’s good. So the last of her short statements, is sort of the culmination of this whole sequence. She says - “I am the one who cries out, and I listen.”
   
Gene: That sort of seals it, or ties it in a neat little bow, doesn’t it? She’s the one speaking and the one listening.
   
David: As she’s stated, many time and many ways, there is no other.
   
Gene: It’s all about non-duality and wholeness.
   
29:06 As Within, So Without
   
David: It is. Well, as we’re nearing the end of the text, the tone changes a bit.
   
    Gene It gets sort of “preachy,” doesn’t it?
   
David: It does. So anyway, there’s a fragmented section, but then it picks up with her saying - “I am the one who is called Truth and iniquity… You honor me… and you whisper against me. You who are vanquished, judge them (who vanquish you) before they give judgment against you, because the judge and partiality exist in you. If you are condemned by this one, who will acquit you? Or, if you are acquitted by him, who will be able to detain you?”
   
Gene: It’s talking about our capacity for self-judgment, and it’s saying that if you find yourself guilty in your own heart, no jury can ever acquit you, because you’re carrying that judgment with you wherever you go. But, the other side of the coin is, that if your conscience is clean, then no amount of recrimination, can cause you to feel guilty.
   
David: We talked about the speaker of this text being like Maat, the goddess of balance and judgement in ancient Egypt. Maat weighs the heart against her feather, which symbolizes the capacity, to weigh our own consciousness, the intentions of our heart.
   
Gene: And the hieroglyphic symbol of Maat is a white ostrich feather. It’s an ostrich feather because the feathers on both sides of the central quill, are exactly the same width. It’s a perfectly balanced feather.
   
David: That’s interesting. The next one is pretty cool, too. It says - “For what is inside of you is what is outside of you, and the one who fashions you on the outside is the one who shaped the inside of you. And what you see outside of you, you see inside of you; it is visible and it is your garment.”
   
Gene: That’s basically a restatement of the Hermetic axiom - “As above, so below. As within, so without.”
   
David: And it’s talking about the “miracles of the one thing”, the “one substance,” that is the topic of the “Emerald Tablet of Hermes.” And it really obliterates the last remaining duality - inside and outside, what you consider to be YOU versus NOT YOU. It’s saying that even this duality is an illusion.
   
Gene: It’s like seeing across Bernardo Kastrup’s “dissociative boundary,” where the fragmented complexes are seen for what they are, temporary garments, that the one consciousness puts on and takes off.
   
David: That’s cool. Do you want to read the last three?
   
31:38 Finding Rest
   
Gene: Sure. The first one says - ”Look then at his words and all the writings which have been completed. Give heed then, you hearers and you also, the angels and those who have been sent, and you spirits who have arisen from the dead.”
   
David: First off, she’s saying to “look at” meaning study “HIS words,” because the writings complete the teaching. The “his” refers to the LOGOS, the organizing principle, whose Word, or pattern organizes the three worlds - the spiritual realm, with its angels - “Messengers of the Word,” the soul level, with us and other “Hearers of the Word, “ and the physical world, where the Word awakens the spiritually dead.
   
Gene: That’s a good summary of that one. The second one says - ”For I am the one who alone exists, and I have no one who will judge me.”
   
David: The meaning of that one hinges on what it means to “exist.” We exist for time - we’re born, but then we die. That statement is saying that we don’t exist in the same way that she does. From her perspective, we’re just a temporary form.
   
Gene: Like a wave on the ocean that dissipates. A passing form, but without a separate existence.
   
David: What really exists, in that analogy, is the ocean, the “One Thing” of the “Emerald Table,” the quantum field, and everything else is just the field knowing itself in temporary, localized forms.
   
Gene: And, she says no one can judge her, because, among other things, she is our power of judgment.
   
David: You can’t, without contradiction, judge your own power of judgement.
   
Gene: That’s true. The final statement of “The Thunder, Perfect Mind” is - ”For many are the pleasant forms which exist in numerous sins, and incontinencies, and disgraceful passions, and fleeting pleasures, which (men) embrace until they become sober and go up to their resting place. And they will find me there, and they will live, and they will not die again.”
   
David: That’s really another way of saying what she’s been saying throughout the text. Stop identifying with temporary forms, and find what’s real. The “fleeting passions” that’s it’s talking about are those that keep you out of balance and unable to find rest. You spend all of your time trying to balance yourself instead of reaching up.
   
Gene: The ending of this text reminds me of the end of “The Trimorphic Protennoia,” where she flies up to her resting place, on a branch of the “Tree of Life,” along with the “Sons of Light.”
   
David: And, it had the same meaning there, that it does here. To “find her there,” you have to take on her form. And by doing that, you realize that you are a temporary form of something vast and undying.
   
Gene: That’s the Gnosis, the remembrance of our true nature, our undying essence.
   
David: Anything else?
   
Gene: Nope.
   
34:38 Conclusions
    
David: Alright. Before we end today, I want to remind everyone, that I’ve included links to books, translations and other information related to Gnosticism, the text, and our discussion today, in the episode “Show Notes.” So this completes our discussion of “The Thunder, Perfect Mind.” Gene, what did it leave you thinking about?
    
Gene: Well, “The Big Chill” is one of my favorite movies, and that quote, “I was evolving. I’m still evolving.” was from a character named Nic, played by William Hurt. He was saying that to excuse some of his past bad behavior, but it’s the right attitude to take toward your mistakes.
    
David: What do you mean?
    
Gene: I mean, instead of being judgmental, to remember that you’re always working with incomplete information, and give yourself room to learn and grow. 
    
David: What was it in the text made you think of that?
    
Gene: The part about her being our internal process of judgment. Which means you’re the one on trial, the judge, and the judgement. It’s just something good to keep in mind. When you’ve made mistakes in the past - “You were evolving.” And just recognizing that past mistakes won’t keep you from making more because “You’re still evolving.” 
    
David: Mistakes are inevitable, but if you can integrate what they teach you, they make you stronger, and more resilient. It becomes part of the story of who you are. 
    
Gene: It does. What about you… what are your final thoughts?
    
David: I’m thinking about some sort of big picture things.
    
Gene: Like what?
    
David: Like what the speaker in this text really represents. She’s what the Gnostics called an Aeon, which is a new possible storyline for human evolution.
    
Gene: What is the new storyline?
    
David: A new approach to God and wholeness, that doesn’t force you to sacrifice you rationality or your humanity.
    
Gene: How would you describe that way?
    
David: A turning inward in order to become aware of our own process of awareness, and to understand the importance, mystery and majesty of this process. By tracing it back to our own conception, and then further back, to the conception of reality, and also forward, beyond our own death, you start to see the seed that we are shepherding in its becoming.
    
    Gene That’s a pretty big idea. But that pattern of organized Mind, is being propagated, and “established among the little ones,” evolving in our future selves, and future generations - consciously or unconsciously.
    
David: And that’s the key distinction. Texts like “The Thunder, Perfect Mind” intend to bring that new level of inner awareness, this “higher state of consciousness,” into manifestation, by describing it and bringing it into conscious awareness, so that it can serve as a template for a new kind of spirituality.
    
Gene: An “Aeon of Equilibrium.”
    
David: Exactly. Anything else?
    
Gene: No, that’s it.
    
David: Ok. That completes our discussion of “The Thunder, Perfect Mind,” which is the last text that we’re going to cover this season. 
    
Gene: And then we’re going to take a break.
    
David: That’s right. But we will be back for a final episode in which we review the four texts we covered this season, and give our final thoughts on what we covered, and what we learned. 🪶